Q&A with Rebecca Sturgeon, poet & DANCEmandala instructor

"Your physical body is a portal through which everything comes."

Hello, friends! Today we have a special edition of the newsletter, a Q&A with Rebecca Sturegon, a dear friend and fellow explorer of the realm of health — which is to say, life.

Rebecca Sturgeon is a poet, writer of Our Daily Breath newsletter, massage therapist, author of a massage therapy textbook, DANCEmandala instructor, and much more. Rebecca also leads wonderful virtual DANCEmandala sessions during Winter Camp. This is the kind of conversation that makes me want to have a long-form interview podcast, because these conversations are fascinating and energizing — and yet there are so many topics we still didn’t get to!

And now, without further ado, let’s meet Rebecca:

Brianne: Rebecca, thank you for being here for this conversation. I'm really excited to talk to you about the many things that encompass your thriving and journey around well-being and living as a human. And your path encompasses so much — massage therapy; your amazing poetry; your newsletter, our Daily Breath; you’ve written a book; you're a DANCEmandala instructor. So can you tell us a little bit about your path? What has tugged you, and what areas have brought you a sense of thriving?

Rebecca: It's funny because it seems very random, but now that I'm getting older, it absolutely makes sense. I sort of fell backwards into massage. And that was where everything started to make sense. Because everything that I do and everything that I have chosen to do that supports my thriving has a couple of things in common, which are that it deeply engages my creativity, that it has an element of service to other humans involved, and that it is connected to a spiritual life.

What a beautiful framework. I don't think most definitions of well-being frame it in those three ways, but this really resonates. Could you talk more about this?

Well, they're all connected to me. It's hard to separate. And it's also connected to us as humans. I think that there's a reason why we have big brains as humans, and it is not to make money and it is not to produce objects for the sake of producing objects. The reason why we have these big human brains is for connection and for recognition of the nature of nature.

All of those things — being creative, serving other humans, attending to my spiritual well-being — are connected to the point of being a human being for me. This is what makes humans human. Using that in a way that doesn't serve and support and express love for other human beings is really problematic, in my view. And I think the connection to spirituality is, for me, the umbrella that's over everything.

So it's just everything. It's infused with everything. I don't know if I'm answering your question.

No, you definitely are. You are saying, this is the meaning of life. This is why we're here. How could that not be a tied to how we thrive? If we stray from our human essence, of course it's going to be harder. Of course we're going to be lost.

Exactly.

I love that. So we met in a creative workshop, and you have been, as long as I've known you, working on your poetry, which is so beautiful and grounding and accessible. You know, there's some poetry I read, and I really don't know what I'm supposed to be getting out of it. And yours I sink into immediately and takes me to another place. And I was wondering if you could talk about how you got into poetry and why it draws you.

Oh, first of all, thank you so much. I don't know, honestly, how I got into it. I have been writing poems for as long as I've been writing words. Like, I have somewhere behind me in my little stack of whatever is left over from my childhood, there's this little notebook of poems that I wrote that are hilarious. At some point, I'll share them with you. I made them into a little book, and I illustrated them.

That's awesome.

I know, right? I just always liked words and how words go. And when I discovered that poetry was a thing, I was like, Wow, this is really fun. And it started off as a puzzle — What rhymes with cat? What rhymes with this? How can I make this the same length as this other line?

Then there was a point in my 20s, where it became more of, Oh, right. This is how I understand things that are impossible to understand.

It became about tapping into something else and paying close attention as a way to understand larger concepts. Tom, our friend Tom, asked me this question once about where ideas come from — and I realized that is why I write poetry, too. I am a person who's pretty easily delighted. There's lightning outside my window [right now], and every time the lightning flashes, I'm like, Oh, this is great! Oh, I get to see this!

And that's where poetry comes from for me. If you are paying attention and can be delighted by something — real delight has to be expressed, and poetry is how I express it.

Oh, my goodness, I got chills.

This also reminds me of two threads that come out sometimes when we get lost. One is returning to what delighted you as a child, this idea of when you're feeling bewildered, go back to that. And the other thread I'm hearing is the importance of processing. We all need some method to process all the emotions, all the challenges, all the feelings we're going through every day.

Exactly.

Let’s talk about your newsletter, Our Daily Breath. It's a special one because it comes out three times a week with poems that are rough drafts, which I feel is so cool and brave to not wait until something is perfect and precious. How did you get this idea, and what is your process like with a newsletter?

Well, three-ish times a week. Some weeks, not so much. (Laughter).

It started with the workshop we were in and the Dailies. The idea was that for 100 days, you show up every day, and you post something in this very supportive workshop of creative people who were all there with the understanding of We're not trying to be perfect, we're just trying to get our stuff out there. And doing that and being supported for that in such a lovely way really gave me a lot of courage to be like, Well, wait a minute. I could do this in a bigger way.

And then Amanda Gorman, the amazing, amazing Amanda Gorman read her inaugural poem and I had this flash — Right! Poetry is for people. It is not for the academy. It's not for scholars. It's not for history. It's for people like living, breathing, flesh and blood. People who need and want and are stinky and everything else. And we forgot that.

Those two things came together and I was like, Okay, so how can I help support the idea that poetry is for people and also keep doing Dailies? Well, what if I just showed my work? What if I just let people see what first drafts are like and was completely open and unapologetic? What I hope will happen is that people will see this and think, I could do that. I could express myself in poetry.

We're not all going to be Amanda Gorman — let’s be honest, she's amazing. But you can express yourself in this way, and it can be fulfilling and beautiful. The twin purposes of this were to keep being in the habit of being creative in public and to remind everyone that, No, poetry IS for you. It's not for academics who are trying to tell you what it means. It's for you.

I love that. One thing that people sometimes struggle with is how they find time to carve out space for a creative practice. To do something like three-ish poems a week — even when you know it's good for your health, even when you know, I feel so good when I find time to paint or whatever your creative practice is — it sometimes gets deprioritized among everything else.

Do you have any thoughts about how you make space for your creative practice? Is there a certain mindset, or is it about routine, or just seasons of life?

This is such a timely question because I'm in the middle of a little bit of a fallow period. My Ideal Rebecca gets up first thing in the morning, makes coffee and sits down and does Morning Pages and writes. And from the Morning Pages, usually one of the newsletters will grow, because there will be a word or a phrase that I'm like, Oh, that's pretty. Let's play with that. I'm not Ideal Rebecca at the moment, because it's late winter when we're talking and winter is hard.

Rebecca Sturgeon

But what I've learned is, the most important thing is to have grace and care and lots of other supportive options. So there are things that I know, many things that I know, support my health and support my well-being and … sometimes I'm distracted…

We all are...

Right? (laughter) Yes. So I try to give myself grace. And today we're talking at a time that for me is mid-morning — but for most people it's early morning — and I haven't written yet today, and that's not Ideal Rebecca. But I'm also like, You know what? That does not change what's in my heart and my being.

So I can do my writing later today or tomorrow, and my cat still loves me.

The leader of the workshop we were in, Seth Godin, talks a lot about separating the outcome from the process. But what I'm also hearing is separating your worth from the process.

Exactly. My husband says a lot that my fundamental nature is tenderness and kindness. He's my husband, so he's a little biased. But turning that inward is so important, especially at times. I know that winter is hard for me personally, so I just have a lot of things in place to be kind to myself.

I think we all need reminders of that kindness, that the kind voice needs to go to us as well as to other people.

Yes.

We've mentioned that winter is hard. We're both about to be part of Winter Camp, and I'm very excited that you will be leading a Saturday session of DANCEmandala. Tell us about what DANCEmandala is.

Oh, my gosh. It's so wonderful. It's a movement meditation practice that uses music and mindful, intentional queuing to guide folks through an experience where you attune to your physical body. Because this is the portal through which everything comes — your physical body. I could have a whole hour conversation about the body and how we are mean to it. But through the physical body, through an understanding of and trust in your body, we get in touch with deeper layers of your energy.

I first discovered this when I went to Thailand several years ago and randomly went to a DANCEmandala session because I had a free evening. And it was... you know how you do something one time, and it has a hook in your heart and you HAVE to go back to it? You have to find your way back to it. So that's what I did. And during the pandemic, I discovered that they had training online, so I reconnected with Areeradh, who is the founder and teacher, and did the training.

It's just a beautiful way to move your body to meditate and to have fun. You know how kids will just boogie? This gives you the chance to do that. It’s an excuse — not that you need an excuse — but if you do.

And it's not anything you have to train for — it’s not like the waltz.

Absolutely not.

It's open to anyone, at any point, to enter it and have fun.

Absolutely. I try to say, especially when I'm facilitating for people who are new to DANCEMandala, that this is about natural movement. It's about the natural movement of your body. It's about what you desire in movement today. And maybe what you desire in movement today is to go lay down next to the wall and take a nap. That's fine. You don't have to show off your stuff. It's not about that at all. It's about connecting with yourself, connecting with music and rhythm, and what's true for you right now. And the only wrong is unsafe. There is no other wrong.

I love that. So I've done DANCEmandala once with you, and I was amazed. It kind of feels like a release afterwards, like your body feels like we spend so much time, many of us, sitting hunched in front of a computer in one place for hours. And this is different — to raise your arms and move around the room and whatever comes to you. Do you feel like there's a sense of release for a lot of people, or a sense of mood lifting up, energy rising?

That's definitely my intention. Everybody's going to have their experience, and I've definitely led sessions where people have been, Wow, that was really hard, and Things came up for me that were really hard, and that is also true. My intention is for people to receive what they need, and I try not to even hold the intention of this is going to be fun, or this is going to be relaxing, but because maybe you don't need to relax today. Maybe this needs to be hard for you today. And I don't get to say what that is. My goal, and my job, as a DANCEmandala facilitator, is to make the space large enough to hold whatever you need and to keep it safe.

This is reminding me about how this idea of things living in your body, whether it's feelings or struggles, or things you've tried not to think about — and acknowledging that they're in your body, and maybe movement is a way of helping you process it.

Yes, absolutely. And I try to be really clear, too, that this is not therapy. It can support therapy. And maybe there are things that you can sort of shake out in a dance that you can then bring to your therapist in a way you couldn't before. But this is not the cure for everything.

Still, what a wonderful, supportive, well-being, thriving process.

Yes, I think so.

Is there also something magical or supportive about people moving together? Even though we'll all be on Zoom, not in the same room, and we can't feel each other's energy that way, we’ll be moving together. Mirroring, I hear, is powerful or just being sync.

Yes, there is something really valuable to that. And I've facilitated DANCEmandala, both on Zoom and in person. And honestly, there is nothing that can replace in person. But there is something about being together on a Zoom. Our hope and direction to people who come on a Zoom is to leave the cameras on — nobody's watching you dance, but there's something about having the screen open that keeps you connected to this space.

And in every Zoom session, before we actually start moving, I like to have people close their eyes and imagine we are all in the same room. And bring the other people into your room.

Our imaginations are so freaking powerful. You know they're not in the room, but if you take a minute to really intentionally imagine that, then it changes the way that the Zoom works.

And I think that's the thing. This is something that Harry, my husband, does as well. I actually learned it from him. Any Zoom that you're doing, it changes the feeling of it.

Wow. I can't wait for your DANCEmandala session.

Thank you. Thank you.

Before we wrap up, I wondered, are there any other realms of your thriving or how you nurture your own health that you want to share? I think we all find it fascinating how each of us manages to move through the world and nurture our health.

A lot of my thriving and my health has to do with unlearning lessons that were taught to me by people's ignorance. Especially now that I'm a perimenopausal woman in America — I have the power of invisibility. It's amazing. I'm not kidding. It is amazing. So a lot of what I do for my thriving has to do with really intentionally loving and accepting the physical body that I have right now.

And some days, many days, what I can get to is friendship, but not deep, like what Sonya Renee Taylor calls “radical self love.” Because I was bullied all through grade school and had years and years of people indicating that my body was wrong. And so it's taken decades to even start to break that apart.

And that comes from being intentional about what I do with my own body and also having really supportive, loving relationships. Having people who can reflect truth back to me when my own vision is clouded. So my thriving is really about relearning how to pay attention to myself.

That's learning we all are doing still. And it's really important to hear that said out loud. Thank you, Rebecca.

To get Rebecca’s first drafts of poems in your email several times a week, sign up for her Our Daily Breath newsletter. All poems are free. Paid subscribers also get access to monthly DANCEmandala sessions with Rebecca and photos and guidance from her calico cat Bonkers, called Bonkers Wisdom. “Think of it as your furry feline fortune cookie.”

I hope you enjoyed this Q&A and left carrying a bit of extra kindness for yourself and your body. Thank you again to Rebecca for the conversation.

May you have a wonderful rest of your week.

To our journeys,
Brianne